Kalesnikava: I never talk about military sanctions. But there's a sports track, border issues, medicine — anything

Photo: Globsec

During the conversation, which took place on May 22 at the international security conference GLOBSEC in Prague, Kalesnikava also explained how her prison experience influenced her views.

— In your speech at GLOBSEC, you said that the European Union should not isolate Belarus, but should look for possible steps towards cooperation. What three things would you propose the European Union do regarding Belarus if you were invited as an advisor?

— Well, look, a week ago sanctions were lifted from athletes. Why were there no proposals on the humanitarian track from the European side during the lifting of sanctions? Why weren't a number of people released, or at least why didn't discussions about it begin?

The reason is very simple — such thoughts are absent, such a strategy is missing — to try, including in such sports negotiations, to talk about the release of political prisoners.

— But did the European Union deal with this? This is a decision of the International Olympic Committee.

— Correct, but still — this is some kind of international community that can also help release people in Belarus. And then there will be no questions about why athletes are allowed to compete while Belarusians are still in prison.

Because I never talk, for example, about "military" sanctions. I don't mention it at all, but I say that there are certain mechanisms, including this track, some social issues, border issues, medicine — anything you want. There is a whole host of things that need to be discussed and that can be used as tools of diplomacy.

The problem now is that no one is dealing with this. It's much simpler to say that we will just pressure the regime and eventually it will break. We see that 5 years have passed, even more, and sanctions are not working as intended.

There was a hypothesis that they would work and a collapse would occur in Belarus. The collapse is not happening, we all see that. The regime feels very strong. Belarusians suffer from these endless repressions, which do not stop. They also suffer from not being able to visit the European Union normally, not being able to study, not being able to get visas, not being able to travel constantly. Movement to the European Union itself is a big problem.

All these things create an utterly absurd situation, where we, Belarusians, who in 2020 stood for European values, for democracy, when we strove for freedom, — now these very same Belarusians suffer because Europe has completely cut them off and left them — not only alone with Lukashenka, but also alone with Putin.

Because the only person who rejoices at the adoption of sanctions against Belarus is Putin. For he opens his arms to Lukashenka, who has no other alternative.

— I would like to clarify. You have already said that you don't mention "military" sanctions. But a large part of the European Union's sanctions were imposed after the start of the full-scale war and are specifically related to the Lukashenka regime's complicity in the war, including because he helped circumvent sanctions against Russia. Would you advise using these sanctions in negotiations too — saying that sanctions imposed after 2022 "for the war" could also be softened?

— I will answer this way: the fact that Putin allowed himself to invade Ukraine through Belarus is the price for Putin supporting Lukashenka in 2020 when Lukashenka asked him for help.

In August 2020, I said this — that it was a big problem. And in 2022, we saw what the price for Putin's support had become.

And now it's important to understand what is expedient to use as an element of diplomacy and negotiations, and what is not. Of course, the European Union should have some decisions about which sanctions they are ready to lift and which they are not. But first and foremost, there must be a clear understanding that Belarus is not Russia, and that a separate strategy, which currently does not exist, should be used for Belarus.

It's important to understand that the de-escalation of the current situation in Belarus entirely depends on the European Union and that it is capable of influencing it. The European Union can influence Belarus to remain a maximally neutral country, one without Putin's weapons and Putin's Russian soldiers.

— And do you think this depends on Lukashenka? Does he still have the ability to say "no" to the Russians?

— It's not even about what I think, but about the European Union needing to influence this situation in its own interests. And this is also a question of political will. This means that either you make decisions and influence this in some way, or you leave it to Putin and Trump, who are currently on this track.

Because it's very easy to just say that Lukashenka will never release opposition leaders. But the Trump administration stopped saying that and started doing something. And 500 people were released. These are numbers you can't argue with, and these are facts that speak for themselves.

In other words, there's no need to say that something is impossible. You just need to take action, try to fix it, try to find new approaches. This is the main principle of diplomacy.

Because cutting off, imposing sanctions, prohibiting — that's the easiest thing to do, and there's no responsibility for it afterwards. But if we're talking about the future of Europe, especially in the context of European security, — without a neutral Belarus, it's impossible.

The European Union truly doesn't want Putin and Putin's weapons to be in Belarus, and for Russia's borders to suddenly expand even further. And Lithuania, and Latvia, and Poland, and especially Ukraine do not want this. And this is the only common interest that unites us all and for which we must fight.

— Information has emerged that the U.S. State Department sent informal letters to the governments of Lithuania, Ukraine, and Poland recommending the lifting of sanctions on the transit of Belarusian potash. Would you support such a step?

— I support the release of political prisoners, I support the reduction and cessation of repression. I support the lifting of isolation from Belarus.

If European countries and America consider this a worthy price, then it's their decision. But I support all movements that will allow these three things I just mentioned to come to fruition.

— I asked Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya the same question about lifting sanctions on potash transit. She says that Europeans won't do it and that she is against such a step. On this issue, you have a disagreement with Tsikhanouskaya's office. Could you state what you agree on with the office's actions, and what tactical or strategic disagreements you still have?

— Firstly, I believe it's very good that we have different opinions. Because that is what democracy is. And if we are ready to accept another's opinion, even if we don't like it, it means that we, Belarusians, are ready to build democracy.

I strongly support that Sviatlana has kept Belarus on the international agenda for all these 5 years. The fact that at forums like GLOBSEC or the Munich Security Conference, where she has been coming for many years, the issue of Belarus is raised. This is very important, and in this regard, of course, I can only express gratitude. I completely respect her work.

The fact that we now have other opinions, another strategy, — it seems to me that this can only benefit us if we use it competently.

— Recently, elections to the Coordination Council took place, in which just over 2,000 people voted. You did not participate in these elections. Why this decision, and why, in your opinion, did so few people vote?

— It seems to me that I have the right not to go, if only because only 5 months have passed since my release. This gives me the right to engage in other things.

The second question is more for those in the Coordination Council. It's about what they are doing, how they represent the interests of Belarusians. But I have no criticism here.

— In the GLOBSEC discussion, you said that some things after your release are not as they were before. What surprised you most after your release — both in the Belarusian context and in the world?

— The level of aggression and hatred towards each other. This surprised me greatly. I sometimes hear such rhetoric in the media and from journalists — word for word what I heard for 5 years in prison from the police and the colony administration.

In 2020, we advocated for free elections, for peaceful changes. This is what united us. We were not fighting the regime, although perhaps that sounds strange now. But for us, the main thing was to have fair elections. And we united for people, for interests. We were not fighting Lukashenka — we offered a new vision and we fought for that vision. The value of human life was very important to us.

And I think that everyone who has been in prison, who knows what even one day in prison is like, perceives everything a little differently.

In other words, for me, there is no problem in thanking Lukashenka, talking about the need to release people and discussing it. Because I know what one day in prison means for every person there.

I cannot imagine what it means for women who have health problems, who are 70 plus years old, and they are there and know that Europe has closed its borders and that there is no hope of their release.

These are very serious issues, and I have the right to speak about them because I know what it's like. And we must do everything to stop this.

When I hear discussions about the need to further strengthen sanctions, to pressure Lukashenka even more — I'll tell you honestly, ask any prisoner: when sanctions were imposed, we always knew about it. Not from television, but because "measures of increased attention" were immediately applied.

Few people talk about these things, but I can. So let's save people. Let's think about Belarusians, not about how to convince someone not to talk to someone else.

My message, of course, is often distorted. But I have said this repeatedly, and it is very important. The value of human life must come first. This is what distinguishes us from Lukashenka and the regime. If we start speaking with words of hate, animosity, aggression, then we are no different from dictators who speak to their people with the same words.

We must save people. We must do everything possible to be heard and for people to be released.

And if we talk about positive things, I saw how Belarusians, a large number of whom found themselves abroad, were able to realize themselves in Europe and America. What a huge number of cool projects have emerged. And I am truly very proud of Belarusians. I am very proud of their creative potential. I am very proud of their solidarity — the way people support each other. This is really cool and it's the best we have.

And it seems to me that this is exactly what we need to mutually improve and support, rather than sowing discord and quarrels, not looking for hidden meanings and double entendre in someone's words. We should simply work for a common future and support each other.

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